Lionel Messi is NOT the Greatest Player Of All Time…Yet
Last weekend the brothers sat down to watch Barcelona play Granada and witness the record-breaking wonder that is Lionel Messi. His 3-goal display took him to the ridiculous goal tally of 54 goals for the season (he’s now on 55 after this past weekend) and confirmed him as not human Barcelona’s all time top goalscorer and once again people were shouting out ‘best player in the world’. There is no doubt that Messi could well be one of, if not THEE best football player of our generation.
Then…Maverick suggested “Messi is the best player of all time….all time”, myself and Don Kwelu looked at him with raised eyebrows while The Yak agreed (though he went on to retract his statement).
What followed was a 2 hour argument, back and forth (as you do) on reasons why he is or isn’t the best player of all time. As we agreed to differ I thought I’d take it to the website and state my opinions and find out from our readers and avid football followers (the ones who don’t make decisions based off of stats and Messi-contributed victories on FIFA, Pro or Football Manager) what they think.
5 REASONS WHY MESSI ISN’T THE BEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME…..YET
1) “Messi isn’t even the best player in the world…..Xavi is”
Messi’s record speaks for itself over the last three years and it would be unfair to even rule anybody out who classes him as the best. However triple Ballon D’ors aside, in my opinion Xavi Hernandez is the best player in the world; he pulls all the strings for Barca, impeccable on the ball, his delivery is perfect, pass rate insane and his reading of the game is probably unmatched right now. Take it from somebody who’s seen him live at the Nou Camp, he is THEE best.
Its very easy to give the best player in the world award to goalscorers, of course Messi has much more than that to his game and you can’t not give him his accolades for breaking records season after season but Xavi to me is a true craftsmen and has never received the plaudits he deserves. How can you be the best player of all time if you’re not the best player in your own team?
2) Club/ Country argument 1
A lot of people come with the approach that in order for Messi to be the best he must win the World Cup with Argentina…not necessarily true. Though Pele, Maradonna and Beckenbauer won the World Cup with their respective countries we don’t think its a necessity for Messi to do so. There are tons of world class players who couldn’t stand a chance of winning for their countries, because well…the countries weren’t quite good enough, Hagi – Romania, Stoichkov – Bulgaria, Best – Northern Ireland etc HOWEVER the difference is they all PERFORMED for their country. Lionel Messi hasn’t really set alight an international tournament, with the World Cup and Copa America being his recent failures, his team were capable of winning both but didn’t produce individually or as a team. Could he be the best club footballer of all time, sure! Best player….not yet.
3) Is 5-6 years enough?
At 24, Lionel Messi’s record is incredible, he’s done in a 6 year span what most won’t be able 
to do in a whole career; but to say he’s the best of all time after 5 seasons is excitable. What if he declines next season and from then on? What will people say? Look at how quickly Ronaldinho and Ronaldo were forgotten? Messi’s on his way but he’s not there yet.
4) Club/Country argument 2
As stated in the 2nd point Messi is on another level for Barcelona but not very effective for Argentina which begs the question “Can he play at his current level outside of the best team in the world?”. He doesn’t have to as Giggs, Totti, Maldini etc have shown that you can be one of the greats playing for one team in your career; but when you took a player like Maradonna out of a team and into Napoli who wasn’t the top team in Serie A at the time of his arrival and he single-handedly (ok not single handedly) took them to the title, I think it would definitely erase any argument that Messi is not the best if he went abroad too. Which brings us to….
5) Cristiano Ronaldo
Bravado, cry baby and stepovers aside, Lionel Messi’s ‘nemesis’ has proved himself in two leagues racking up an impressive goals to games ratio that takes his record at Real Madrid to a higher percentage than Lionel Messi at Barcelona. Could Messi do the job at Real? Probably. Could Ronaldo do the job at Barca? Probably. All I know is, if I judge by stats and all round game and had to choose between Messi and Ronaldo? CR7 may have to get the call up.
Messi is arguably the best player in the world, but best player of all time? Lets see him reach his peak first. Scary thought.
JC
What’s your thoughts?
23 comments on “Lionel Messi is NOT the Greatest Player Of All Time…Yet”
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@YourMumsAthletic – Messi would flop in the Premier League? Based on what exactly? CR7 is a great player, one of the best around but there is only one reason he isn’t named the best player in the world. Lionel Messi.
CR7 is much more about making himself look good rather than the team, and I think everyone would agree that Messi is a far more effective team player than Ronaldo. I also agree that Xavi is an excellent player, the best in his position, but better than Messi? Messi may not dictate play as well as Xavi, but is still an excellent passer & provides plenty of assists, as well as being able to score from free kicks and being able to take on 2 – 3 players at the drop of a hat. -
I largely agree with the majority of what you said, except for a couple things. Firstly I think its difficult to compare today’s players with those of the past because the game has evolved so much. Football today has almost become a science and I think with today’s tactics and better defences its harder for a single player to carry an entire team to glory. So could Pele have scored 1,200 odd goals in today’s game? I’m not so sure. Secondly, I dnt know which Ronaldo you’re referring to in point 3, but I don’t think either of them have been quickly forgotten. Brazilian Ronaldo, best out and out striker of our generation, and CR7 (very close) second best player in the world right now. Good post though, always been a fan of BWNG.
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@Couldn’t Think of a Cool Alias, Good points made re: the evolution of the game. I think the greatest players could play in any generation, Cryuff, Maradonna, Beckenbauer and Pele for example, but you’re right in a sense that Pele’s goalscoring record may not have come to fruition in this day and age.
I was referring to Brazilian Ron. Thanks for the comment, appreciate it!
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Very good points made here. Let’s not forget that this dude (Messi) is only 24. For a player to perform like the way he does consistantly is incredible. The scary part is he’s keep on improving. At 19 he scored 3 goals in the el clasico, at 24 he has a record of 234 club gaols, that’s something many great players can’t even touch. He’s done it all at club level, won everything that’s on offer. Concerning the world cup saga with Argentina, I did some research on the world cup winning greats, Zidane, Pele, Maradona, Franz etc those guys were treated like kings in their respective countries. Messi however is treated the exact opposite in Argentina, the amount of stick he gets from media is ridiculous! And he gives his heart and soul. for Argentina. At. FC Barcelona he’s adored by everyone. I think its unfair to say that because he has not won the world cup he is not the best. Personally I’ve never seen a better player. Cheers guys:) respect!
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Had this debate with my boy the other day…
Its a tough one because it depends on your definition of “Greatest”. Do you mean the player with the most flair? The most effective player? The best goal scorer? The guy with the most trophies?
I agree with most of the guys above…its a bit early to be calling Messi the greatest of all time…Im sure if he does what he is doing now for the next 6 years it would be hard to argue BUT there are still some things he needs to prove to the world…
1) International – Yet to perform on the BIGGEST stage the world cup. Maradona lead a very ordinary Argentine side to world cup glory whilst Messi who is playing with Tevez, Aguero, Higuain etc couldnt….Hmmm
2) Mutiple Leagues – C.Ronaldo for example has done his thing in the Prem and la liga (the 2 highest rated leagues in the world) where as Messi hasn’t….Hmmm
3) Flair – This ones a bit personal and not everyone will agree. Messi lacks flair for me…Other than shoulder feints/good dribbling and outlandish finishing Messi doesnt make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up in anticipation like a Ronaldo (R9) or Ronaldinho did in their prime…Just saying…
I think until messi can prove himself in a team that isnt built around him then he will always have question marks over him about being the best ever! Win the world cup or move to another club team and do the same damage then he will have proven himself…
Lets takes Ronaldo (R9) for example…he has won club trophies in Holland, Italy, Brazil and Spain (with Barca & Real). He has won World cups (world cup top all time scorer), chamions leagues….the lot. Basically he has won everything there is to win as a footballer (and he made the hairs stand up on the back of your neck – no homo) and in my eyes he is the best player of our Generation. Its a shame his career was ruined by injury…just imagine if he had stayed fit…and Brazil would have def won the 98 world cup if he didnt have some juu juu fit…but thats me going off topic…
P.S. Xavi is def not better than Messi. I know they play diff positions (Xavi is the best at what he does) but hes not better than Messi.
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I know you wrote this a few days ago but even from watching how Messi was shut out of the game against Milan for most of it, its hard to argue that he is the best ever. He might be the best player in Club competition at the moment and of his generation . I agree with you that Messi needs perform on the international stage for his country and perhaps with a less talented team than Barca which has the Midfield Maestros of Iniesta and Xavi to support him.
I think if messi can sustain his performance for another 5 years he will definitely be close to being called one of the greatest ever.
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1. Messi vs Ronaldo or Ronaldo cutting it with two of the major leagues doesn’t quite fly. The 2 different teams Ronaldo has played in don’t do much when playing against Barcelona. Methinks beating bottom teams mercilessly (which is what Critiano Ronaldo does) and scoring penalties does not exactly make you great.
2. For Argentina, Messi has had the misfortune of being coached by morons. Have you seen him play this year? He is still young as well.
3. As for Xavi being better, the best player of a team is seen as the person who wins games for you. PASSING does not put the ball in the net, SCORING does
4. Messi may not be the best player ever YET, but in the world right now? YES he is!!!
5. As for your Xavi thing, beginning of this year, there was a player in Swansea who had a better pass percentage than him… Swansea is pretty much average which serves to reinforce my point in 3
Now don’t get me wrong, I think having Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in your team is 2 players too many but then… Who am I?
As for AC Milan keeping Barca quiet, any one remember Rubin Kazan?
*shrugs and goes back to work*-
@S.N.M., 1. Messi vs Ronaldo is a legitimate argument as they are considered by many to be the best two in the world. I agree Messi has had a better time in head to head games against Ronaldo, good argument. Im not 100% in this but Im pretty sure Ronaldo has scored against most if not all the top teams in La Liga as well as the bottom, penalties aside, ability wise he is definitely great,
2. Its unfortunate that Messi hasn’t had the likes of a Guardiola to coach him at Argentina but that shouldn’t really take away from his performances, I doubt he is asked to play any different than he does for Barca; although to be fair the team dynamics might change him.
3. Messi isn’t the only player in the team that wins games for Barca. Before he was injured, Villa was winning a fair share of games, as was Pedro, the person who pulls a fair share of assists for these goals was/is Xavi. Playmakers and creators win games as they put the ball on a plate for a forward to score. Like I said earlier its easy to give forwards the plaudits but people should start looking at players who DICTATE a game also.
4. I wont argue, everyone has their favourites, my personal opinion is Xavi but I couldn’t knock anyone choosing Messi, he is on another level.
5. Beginning of the year, Leon Britton yeah I remember, but who has the better pass rate now? Xavi does this consistently over the course of a season against any and every team.
Thanks for your comments brother, take a look at some of our previous football related posts.
http://www.brotherswithnogame.com/what-footballer-are-you/
http://www.brotherswithnogame.com/5-ways-to-know-youre-playing-the-heskey-role-with-chicks/
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As another avid football fan I can relate to alot of what’s been posted already, but my major points in this argument are:
1) Xavi & Iniesta: its quite tough to debate whether they’re better than Lionel Messi, but what isn’t debatable is that they’re two of the best central midfielders of the last 20 odd years ( the other being Paul Scholes) Barca’s record in La Liga and Europe is phenomenal since each one has been regularly in the team. Then Spain’s record at international tournaments became phenomenal since they became the fulcrum of that team. The point I’m making is that for club and country, Xavi and Iniesta make trophies happen. World Cup 2010 made it undoubtably evident that Messi needs them more than they need him. Argentina got battered 4-0 by a really good German side, while Spain outmanoeuvred the same German side on the way to lifting the trophy.
2) Flair: I’ve said countless times that the best player I’ve watched in my lifetime will probably always be Ronaldinho. The one issue I tend to have with Messi and Ronaldo is that it’s always a goal-scoring competition between them. With Ronaldinho on the other hand, the man was so unpredictable on the football field you loved it. He made you sit by the phone every time he played, just so you could call your boys and shout “OMG… Did you see that??!!!!” matter of fact I think Sky+ was brought in because of that guy. He could pass the ball off his back, flick the ball with places on his foot most folks don’t even use when playing football, he would stop skill a defender (wait for him to catch up) then disorientate the defender again. For all Messi and Ronaldo are doing, (which don’t get me wrong is amazing) I still think I would take Ronaldinho and Zidane any day.
3) Pep Guardiola: Another thing people constantly overlook is the massive effect Pep has had on Messi’s career since he took over. With Pep, Barcelona is about Messi and anyone who can’t live with being the supporting cast is shown the door. When he took over from Rijkaard, he provided Messi with his own medical team, nutritionist etc round the clock, which goes a long way to showing why Messi is almost always fit to play despite previously being injury prone. With the exception of maybe C. Ronaldo I don’t believe this is done at any other top club(or almost any club) round the world. I take nothing away from Messi’s brilliance, but if he were to play in a different league not many clubs would be able to make him so comfortable.
4) Match-winner as opposed to being a leader: this is something that’s very common among goal scorers with the exception of maybe Samuel Eto’o, Wayne Rooney and Francesco Totti. When a game is going very badly, rather than lift your team majority of forwards tend to either try and win the game by themselves or have a defeatist attitude (Messi hangs his head while Ronaldo stands there posing with hands on hips). It takes a leader to turn round and motivate his team mates to turn things round, which alot of greats could do. Maradonna was a leader, Sir Bobby Charlton was a leader, Ronaldinho was a leader, Zidane was a leader, many of the Liverpool greats were leaders, Thierry Henry was a leader at Arsenal, but while Messi and Ronaldo are certified Match winners they lack that leadership quality that motivates team mates in hard times.
In conclusion I will say that Messi and Ronaldo are SPECIAL players I’ve been fortunate to see in my lifetime, but I just wish folks would let them retire first before constantly debating with them on who’s the greatest ever.
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This debate can go on until the end of the year……
But in response to many of the comments made….
Pele never played in europe and Big Ron (R9) NEVER won the Champions League, that never takes away from the accoldaes they get
Messi does not need to move to prove himself, the best players move to bigger teams to play with better players to prove themselves, he is at the best team with the best players and proven from his debut… Zidane moving to Juve then Real, always a step up, Ronaldinho’s move to Barca. No good / great player never moved down a club to prove himself (Unless for Financial reasons, like Eto’o), why ask that of Messi???
Anyteam that can afford messi (Man City, Real and possibly Chelsea) will buy the best players in the world to support him. He already has that were he is.As bad as it hurts me to say this, United are the best team this league has produced in the last 5 years and arguably more, If Messi can ruin them on them biggest club stage on more than one occassion, why do people question if he will be able to do it against the likes of Stoke and Wolves. He will probably be rested a little more (purely due to be fouled more) but if Silva and V.Vaart can come to this league and look like world beaters, how can you question Messi’s success in the PL.
Good arguement made about Pep looking out for Messi, but if any club had messi you would be crazy, actually STUPID not to wrap him up in cotton wool the same way they do, and wrapping him up does not take away from his quality and ability, it just means he plays more.
Maradono was marked out of the Argentina vs Italy 1982 WC match, argentina ended up being kicked out the tournament, Maradona came back a better player after that game.
Messi has come back better from the semi final against Inter Milan in 2010On the international stage Djorkaeff was moved to the wing to make space for Zidane to function, the under-rated argentina squad was built around Maradona’s free role, Brasil played an extra centre mid (CM) to compensate for Rivaldo and Ronaldinho not going backwards. Argentina in 2010 played Di Maria, one of the best wingers in the game today CM, and Tevez and aguero kept dropping into the no.10 space in which messi operates in. A sensible manager would help both Messi and Argentina’s cause.
Finally the difference between Messi and Ronaldo, If Madrid win or Lose and Ronaldo doesn’t score he is anonymous is the game, with Messi always makes an impact and dominates the game whether he scores or not i..e. Barca 5 Real 0, messi didn’t score but had a hand in 4 goals and any other times their teams have met, Messi has impacted somehow and more often than not Ronaldo has spectated the game. But dont take nothing away from Ronaldo, he has revolutionised the role of the winger and probably the best winger ever, but not player.
In conclusion Messi is on course to becoming the greatest player ever
A very long response, if you read through it, i hope you appreciate it, if not………..
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Firstly i dont think Ronaldo comes close to messi. Not only does Messi perform on EVERY stage he is an absloute joy to watch. Messi also gets 20 odd assists a season on top of his 50+ goals which is unheard of.
Yes i Agree that he has yet to do it in the international stage but some people have said hes been non exsistant which is false. Iv seen him tear up on international duty but just couldnt find the net. BUT his performances are still top class.In this artical JC rates Xavi more than messi which i find insane. I have also been to the camp Nou (vs Batis 5-2) and iv seen xavi play and i watch every game barca play on tv…. im sorry to say but what he does and what Messi does is uncomparable. Xavi’s role isnt the most difficult role to play in. He keeps the ball ticking and picks out World Class passes like no other however when messi aint dropping shoulders on EVERYONE and scoring 50 goals iv seen him pick out passes like that too… hes got everyones ability all in one!!!
Pele has never stepped a foot in Europe, Maradona hasnt Won the Champs league (or whatever it ws called) or has he?!
Messi is already the greatest of all time….
But my personal fav is R9
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There has been a gossip doing rounds in the football circles that the since his emergence, Barca team has always been built around Messi. From tactical game formation to buying of players at Camp Nou. This gossip has been spread by pundits, journalists and even former players. Samuel Eto’o alluded to that during his troubles with Frank Rijkaard back in ’07 even but he was dismissed as taking sides in the Juan Laporta vs. Sandro Rosell battle for presidency . I remember Deco too did an interview back then and alluded to that gossip and most recently it the same issue was the genesis of Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s animosity towards current coach Pep Guardiola when he complained about being played out of position to accommodate Messi’s style into the team.
If the rumor is by any chance true, then it would be very difficult for Messi to be the greatest of all time. He’s currently one of the best goal-scorers and probably play-makers (very debatable I know) doing it in the game but to be the greatest of all time? it will take a while. if my all time favourite player Ronaldinho is never even being mentioned as one of the greatest, then Messi will have to keep his form till he’s 30 to be that.
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Can’t talk shit about Xavi and think I won’t send you 2 slaps for impudence.
If you haven’t seen that man live you haven’t seen half of how good he is. Messi is brilliant and I would disagree that Xavi is better but don’t talk down Xavi. He epitomises the word dominance.
His short passing will have you worn out and pulled out of position thus allowing Messi to make your players look like even bigger pricks than they are.
He is fulcrum of what they do only player in the same category is Scholes and then Pirlo a little way behind those two.
Messi is brilliant and appears to have a God given talent that would manifest anywhere but don’t under estimate home much Xavi influences this (hence Messi doesn’t look the same player at international level).
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why r u guys talkng so much abt messi not winning wc..
He was jst 22 maybe 22-23 when he played the lst wrld cup…I dnt thnk theres anyone who have done that at this age…Nd we all knw he is barcelonas bby….nd the team is built around him…bt I dnt hv any doubt that he will perform the same way for any other club…maybe he would score 10-15 goals less in EPL or anywhere else…
Mark my word messi may not b the best footballer ever till now….but he will b there one day for sure.. -
What I will first say is that Messi is the most consistent player right now and has been for a while. I do not rate any player as the best if he only played at one club farless one country. Giggs is good but he will never get that big rating from me because he played at one club for his entire career. If Messi eventually leaves and do damage in respectable leagues such as England or Germany then I will think about that.
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Messi is definitely better than Ronaldo and I think messi could put up the same points with real or any other top Epl team. Messi is deadly with a bit of space and your telling me he wouldn’t do good on a side which plays counter attacking football ? Messi can score and is unselfish I’ve seen him draw in 2 defenders and give perfect passes giving team mates open looks. Ronaldo is still amongst the best but he is not at Leo’s level.
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i think messi is the best… BUT… without xavi or iniesta messi wouldn’t have been who he is today…. messi is the best finisher in the world.. and falcao is also living up to his potential.. ronaldo is an amazing player but he would be better if he would be a good team player …. he is a bit selfish ….. messi is just 25 years of age.. ronaldo is 27…. messi has broken more records than any other player scoring 87 GOOALs in a calender year… messi is the best in his position.. ronaldo is not a striker but still scores goals….. but right now in 2012 messi is slightly better than ronaldo.!!!!
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Winning the WC doesn’t compare to UEFA. Barca, with Messi, would win over the Spanish national team. So in the era of super bucks and super teams, the WC is no longer the defining criterion because national teams are no longer as good as the best league teams. Messi has won two UEFA cups and has scored a ton of goals in that toughest of competitions.
So what do we mean by the best? In terms of shot accuracy and goals, which surely counts for something in a game where goals are hard to come by, Messi, only 25 and just entering his prime, is now categorically the best, even better than Pele, whom I have only seen in video. In terms of providing, Messi, in my view, is equal to Maradona; his assists numbers would be much higher if Xavi, Sanchez and Iniesta hadn’t blown to many golden opportuniites. In term of aesthetics and ball control, there will never be another Maradona. Messi’s game (like Xavi’s) when he’s not scoring is small and compact; it’s easy to miss, but it’s brilliant, especially in tight spaces. Maradona was like that everywhere in the pitch. When we speak of the beautiful game, I believe we are referring to the game as exemplified by Maradona. So who would we rather watch at his best? There may be no definitive answer to this question until Neymar hangs up his cleats.
Enjoyed this post, as I do any other BWNG football-related post. But CR7 is better, he shows tekkers for his national team and has done it in more than one league.
Butttt, he wouldn’t make it at barca, that’s something i’ve noticed about barca and ronaldo-like players, just look at alexis sanchez, a lone warrior, before barca you could give him the ball and he’d just go for it and score. What barca did was mess up his playing style making him less effective .. so yeah ronaldo would flop at barca and it wouldn’t even be his fault, they don’t promote that type of player ever since the ronaldinho era ended.
on the other hand .. messi would flop in the premier league without doubt, without barca’s playing style he’d be crap i reckon .. maybe at arsenal he’d be ok .. who knows!